I thought we'd agreed here, and then you went on this bizarre sidebar in which I can't tell what you're talking about anymore. Are you saying that some establishments have family changing areas with cubicles? Yes, I've seen those too. In those cases, no problem! Great! If there were more places with these facilities, there'd be no issue.Women who weren't happy to "just ignore penises" could use those private stalls, just as they can in bathrooms.

Thie issue is that in my experience at least, most places have communal changing rooms for males and females. I have never once, in my entire life, seen a man bring his young daughter into a male changing room. If he did, there's no way I'd get naked in front of her. This is because I am not a fucking creep. But again, I"ve never seen a father do this because most men aren't creeps either.

And you keep getting this confused. I'm not asking anybody to alter their policy. You are. Single-SEX spaces currently exist to protect women on the basis of their SEX. It has never ever been the case that a male could simply say "Oh, I'm a woman now" and enter a female-only space. The entire reason we're having this conversation is because of proposed CHANGES to the law that would allow this.

Because both trans women and men are males, these changes would allow men to enter female only spaces with unprecedented ease, and (and pay attention because this is important), WOMEN WOULDN'T EVEN BE ALLOWED TO OBJECT ANYMORE. These laws would allow me, a man, to walk into a female changing room, gawp at women and girls as they got undressed, heck, I could even get an erection (trans women get erections too after all), and the women in that changing room couldn't do a thing about it. This would drive many women out of spaces that were made specifically for them.

I’ve highlighted all the relevant words in the hopes you can wrap your brain around this. But as I said, what I find so offensive about you is that I don't think you don't understand it, I just think you don't care.

And what a surprise, you include a link that a) is based on TDoR which I've already pointed out is unreliable, b) is global instead of limited to the United States, and c) still shows that in "the deadliest year since records began", 375 trans people (360 trans women) died worldwide.

Now, I know that this is 360 too many. But as I know you're not going to do it, let's put these numbers in context:

First, even though it's very likely not the case given what we know about TDoR, let's assume that all these deaths were hate crimes related to the victim being trans. From your source, 48% of those trans women were sex workers (hopefully we can agree these deaths, tragic as they are, have nothing to do with changing rooms). That leaves 187 global deaths in a year. 70% were from Central and South America and some undisclosed number were Europeans. Let's ignore the Europeans. That leaves 56 people who we're assuming are all from the United States even though we know for a fact the number is lower than that.

So to go back to your reply the other day, that makes our deliberately, significantly-inflated "daily death-toll": 0.15.

I'm not trying to mimimise this. Murder is murder. There's no acceptable number. But do you think we would add to this “daily death-toll” if we asked pre-op trans women to use gender neutral spaces to get changed?